Thardferr d20 or 3.5

[Feff]

It seems to get new players and DM's, it always comes down to "Does Thardferr run 3rd edition?"

In the past we've talked extensively about allowing for both systems, and we've had all sorts of ideas, from running two worlds, to just allowing both systems completely and letting individual DM's sort things out.

So let's get some current player/DM feedback on this topic again. With the site changing over and with some of the cleanup that is already under way on the site, it gives us an opportunity to incorporate this in since we are already devoting time to updating the site.

Everyone is free to have an opinion, give ideas on how to incorporate the two systems together (as I know we don't want to completely switch over), so that they can run side by side and not have too much of a conflict. If this means we update our 2nd ed character creation, we will look into that. If it's having to write up a chunk of 3rd ed things, we will look into that.

Any opinion on the matter is welcome but again, remember to keep things civil.

[Zee]

I think it's gotten to the point where if we want thardferr to grow again, we're gonna have to allow 3rd/D20 (i dont even know if those are the same or different ). I personally prefer 2nd, because i dont like changing much after i've gotten to know something. So i would recommend we let each DM do their own thing and run what ever they want. Then tweaking rules here and there to keep characters on the same page, after all with all the tweaking we've done here already we aren't exactly running straight up 2nd ed. anymore .

[kluu]

It ins't a matter of allowing d20/3.5, it is more a matter of keeping it Thardferr.

3.5 is the current use game mechnic most people use it now instead of 2nd, though some of us still use 2nd mainly because we know it. IMO 3.5 is better game mechnic.

The problem is that most peoplesem to think that if ou are using 3.5 youhave to use everything 3.5 and this would change Thardferr as we know it, change much of its flavor and internal dynamic.

I'm all for 3.5 being used and even being predominant here. I'd just like to see, as we have always decided after much discussion, that it be limited to those things that were originaly held in 2nd ed. that made Thardferr what it is. This would mean limiting the class, race selection and much of the easy magic manipulation and creation in 3.5 to that of 2nd ed.

Other than that let 3.5 reign.

[Paks]

I was under the impression it was being allowed anyway given that Cleo was running 3rd edition at one stage.

I agree a lot with Zee, let each individual DM run with which ever edition they prefer so long as the DM body are aware of it. I also agree with Kluu in limiting the races and classes, given that the games would be played in Thardferr I don't see that it would be too big a problem.

[Zee]

On the other hand kluu i totally disagree. It is the system that has kept thardferr from continuing to grow like it did when it first started. Then 2nd edition was the system people knew. Now they know 3rd (or 3.5) as you said. When people come around and they see that it is the 2nd edition system, they leave immediatley and don't look back.

I'll say it again, i know nothing about any edition other than 2nd (well other than 1st, but well who cares about that anymore) so if things need to be tweaked to keep a new system in fitting with thard thats fine. The problem is finding a DM and players to understand what thard is about. From what i have seen it is relatively unique.

It's not something you can show up to once a month, or even on an irregular basis, it's something that has alot of history and (at this point) takes alot of work to understand. By having the huge road block of using another sytem right at the start of a long hard path, i can see where it deters alot of folks.

[Xxian]

From memory the biggest issue was XP, as 3e advanced way quicker than 2e, but I believe there was some sort of scale put in place to have all editions advance at the same rate wasn't there?

[Zee]

I dunno, i'd like nalia to chime in though as if i remember right she was part of the 3rd ed. playtest several years back.

[Feff]

The thing is, from what I'm understanding of 3e (and I don't know nearly as much), the benefits of gaining levels are a bit different than that of gaining a level in 2e.

So a level 2 character in 3e wouldn't be the same as 2e...but then again, this might be my ignorance of the 3e system coming into play here.

[kluu]

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with, Paks. I said lets use 3.5 just limit things to what the game ienvoronment is written up for, the class/profession choices, the limite magic world, etc...

It would be a lot easier to repalce the mechanics and not have to rewrite every descriptive doc on the world that way. And also this lets those wishing to play 2nd edition to continue doing so.

If it were reversed and this was a completely 3.5 world with no limitations the 2nd ed palyers couldnt use it at all wihtout a great deal of creation to include all the 3.5 things that 2nd just doesn't have. So to keep Thardferr the world it was created as it is easier and more fair tolimit 3.5 than to exclude 2nd altogether or need a great deal of writing and  creation to make 2nd have whta 3.5 adds.

[Paks]

I didn't say I disagreed with you Kluu, I said I agreed.

[Feff]

Let's get a list of all the races/classes available to 2nd edition that is available to 3rd edition as well.

It looks like once we figure out what races/classes are allowed to both, then figure out an experience system that will be fair to both sides, we shouldn't have too much more to worry about with this.

[Suleidan]

i honestly thing that most all of this has already been done?

[Feff]

I'll go back looking then haha. I stayed away from most of the 3e discussion before because I knew even less about it then than I do now.

[Firewielder]

I think I've said this tons of times...I don't do IG thardferr, but if you need help gathering any info for 3.5 just let me know.  I've got 90% of the source books and DM a friday night campaign, so if you need any info put into a pretty little email or word file or something, just let me know.

I've got the time and plenty of little flash discs that I can use.

[gerin]

3.5 edition has a better skill system, and it also has the feat system.

We already use both in some form.

Skill would just be nwps cept they are done diffrently in 3.5 edition and the feats are more powerfull skills that you can get after certain levels.

Like a dodge feat or a cleave feat to give you an extra attack.

Were currently making our own feats and having our dms allow them, while 3.5 has an entire section of them ready to use.

Also, the classes have more induvidual skills compared to 2ed.
A monk class for instance isnt even regarded as mortal when reaching a certain level, having reached a higher spiritual understanding of the world and the body.

2ed is fun, but if you look on the big picture, 3.5 does have more things you can do, and its actually easier to learn as the rules are more directly told.

Yes the system is easier, but still just as fun as 2ed, saying its crap tends to come from those that are very used to 2ed and dont want to let go.


And yes, you do advance faster in level in 3ed, but this can easily be remedied if you change the method for giving experience.

Funny thing about me, ive played each edition and still play first and second edition.

But second edition was my first major start in the game.

But I have wanted to start 3ed again next to the 2ed game here on thardferr, i just need to get the 3.5 book.

Wich brings up another point, a big reason we dont get new players, is mainly becouse the 2ed books are no longer gettable, even true torrents its harder to get the books, and most people would rather flick trough a book then to read the entire 2ed book on a screen.

Ive read most of the 2ed books on screen, and it wasnt always fun.

And lets face it, we play the game to role play, and to be heros (( or strive for villainy )) with sometimes rock crushing power or the power to raise armies of the dead, that aspect wont go away regardless of edition.