Proposal: PCDMs using 3e

[Lalina]

This proposal allows for PCDMs to use 3e in their sessions according to the rules for 3e that have already been set out by previous DMs that have experimented with 3e.  PCDMs would still have to abide by all current PCDM rules.

[Scionist]

I think the playtesting should be done by DM's only.

[Liriel]

totally agree, scionist

[Nyrhtlyk the Dark]

Oh, I don't know. :)    I'll never be a Thardferr DM, but at the same time, I wouldn't mind running a PCDM campaign in Thardferr for the 3e system.  Especially since it's playtesting, it's pretty obvious that whatever gets done will have to be reviewed by the DM's totally.  So, the campaign may or may not count, and even if it does, the characters will have to be reapproved by DM's to be included in another 3e campaign. :)

If the DM's are unwilling to playtest, it's a Catch-22 to say that nobody but them can do it.  Especially since it's obvious many PC's have some experience and can do just as good a job, setting up the foundation to allow 3e into Thardferr.

[Gibreel]

Could you explain your views Lalina and Scionist?

We have the situation presented where "If the DM's are unwilling to playtest, it's a Catch-22 to say that nobody but them can do it" so this vote effectively kills 3rd Edition or delays it (which has been the way things have gone for years). Also, what makes PCDMing bad?
There are several good things:

1) PCDMing is watched by a DM, who can communicate what is going on to the rest of the DMs. This would be more public and watched than if it was done by a DM.
2) Several possibilities exist for PCDMs. No DMs exist, because they have all left.
3) PCDMs can (and actually would) recruit 3rd Edition DMs. This is what needs to happen for 3rd Edition to succeed. They can also assist any newly recruited DMs.
4) PCDMs would do the work, and provide informatiuon just by their function as PCDMs. So you would have reports automatically, since it is required to continue PCDMing. Rather than having a year of playtesting with no results.

[Scionist]

O.k. there is no DM willing to do the playtesting now correct?  Then, how realistic is it to think that a DM (that isn't interested) will take the time to go over plots, xp, treasure, magic items etc. for several PCDM's?  Even with the PCDM submitting reports the DM will still have to go over them and maybe even sit in on a couple of sessions.  You can lead a horse to water Gib, but you can't make 'em drink.

I'm not against the PCDM'ing of 3e.  I'm not against having 3e added to Thardferr.  If we were going to allow 3e in Thardferr then I say go for it.  But the playtesting needs to have a DM sponsor (IMHO).  I just don't believe it's realistic to think that PC's running 3e sessions is going to make things happen any faster.

The only way I can see the 3e PCDM thing working is if there is a 3e DM recruited.

And it was Liriel not Lalina  :wink:

[Nyrhtlyk the Dark]

Just kinda need a single sponsor. :)


I know the DoE is currently being ran by a PCDM. All of us on the DoE are familiar with 3e to a degree, so we could easily switch all our current 2e characters into 3e and continue playing.

All we really need to report for our characters is the trip tickets which detail the storyline.  Our experience, treasure and such can be summed up upon another DM trip ticket, and the experience can be written in such a way it compares the % of xp gained for our 3e level, versus gaining a 2e level at the same level. Not a whole lot of difficulty. ;)

Though, I did figure out the ultimate way to record experience in Thardferr. Simply take all written trip tickets, and add up the hours gamed by each individual PC and update them on a monthly basis.  This way, you can award levels based upon the amount of hours someone has spent playing games in Thardferr. :)   let's take this further away from the hands of the DM's and make sure that they have more controls, since we all know they need it. :)  Whilst we are at it, let's make sure no group gets more treasure than another group, so let's setup a rule in place so that you can only earn X gp in a set amount of time, or perhaps 10 gp / hour / level max per session? :)  How's that sound?

[Thragnar]

Scionist?   Are you representing the PCs ... or yourself on this issue?

Have you read all the posts from PCs saying they WANT to have 3E introduced to Thardferr?

Have you read posts from PCs saying there is a Strong Need to open the doors up and recruit new members?

I cannot see why you have any difficulty with this issue.   This is exactly the kind of tool needed to breath some new life into Thardferr.   Other gamers will see that a new place has opened up and begin to start checking things out.   Granted ... it might be a little awkward at first, but the long haul has great potential.  

Again ... I ask any and all that have never experienced 3E to try it out.   I personally know 4 DMs that were once with Thardferr that are now exclusively running 3E campaigns or will only run 3E.   Does this tell you something at all?   I'm also currently in four 3E campaigns and guess how many 2E ones ..... precisely one.    Does this tell you anything at all?

Are you seeing the need yet?    

Please guys,  open it up ... the sooner the better.

[Lalina]

No one has said they are against 3e.

Indeed, this proposal presumes that 3e is available to play.

However, there are no DMs at this time willing to run 3e.


Therefore, the idea came up that PCDMs can go 3e.


However, since there are not any DMs really familiar with 3e, some (including myself) feel that there is really no one able to provide proper oversight to a 3e PCDM.

As I have said many times now -- there is no problem with running 3e, since the rules, as Gibreel has pointed out, have been made for the most  part.

The problem is that there is no DM willing to run 3e at the moment.  No DM, no session -- it's a simple as that.

[kluu]

I would be willing to Sponser/DM backup and allow PCDM's using 3, as long as they are fitting sessions for a PCDM.

I see no difference in using 3 as to using 2nd. As long as the characters are built within the thardferr seting requirements, the running of the game and the mechnic used done'st really matter. Also PCDM have no problems with interaction with other or more thanone group so there is no difficulty with possible interaction and translation between the two game systems with which to bother.

BTW, this also brings up the discussion we had had about increasing the possibilities within the PCDM we had before and never finished. Going on what seemed to be expressed inthose discussions I have been allowing Gibreel to run sessions that go beyond the general rules given for PSDM right now as a playtest. It has been put on hold becasue of Gib's tendonitis. But so far has not ran into any great problems. THoughI am awaiting the ending and the possible greater estent of PCDMing thta may still arise.

[Scionist]

Thragnar,

Did you bother to READ my post?

[Thragnar]

Yes Scionist I did read your post and I responded to it the way I saw the need.

"...However, since there are not any DMs really familiar with 3e, some (including myself) feel that there is really no one able to provide proper oversight to a 3e PCDM...."

Does this not beg the question ... Why not?   Why not take a bit of time and see what 3E is about?   Why not at least look into how it runs?  There is a growing number of PCs that want it to happen.   It is not about the cost of books, because at least the PHB is free to download from WotC.  So the question becomes ... Whynot?

I greatly appreciate what you are offering, Kluu.   I'm sure there are many others that feel the same way.

[Dalan]

Thrag, the PCs elected Scion to vote his mind, not the current popular opinion or what have you.  I'm not saying that he shouldn't take their opinions into account, but that he shouldn't have to vote by the majority opinion.

Actually, I'd like to think I'm pretty familiar with 3e, at least to the point where I'd be able to oversee it.  I also have all the rules and can better familiarize what I don't know.  I would be very willing and happy to oversee 3e PCDM playtesting provided:

I have access to all the chatlogs.

The playtesting is done at a time I have available to lurk on most nights (which is essentially almost any day/time.

Co-write the proposal for the 3e rules.

Follow all the other rules of PC DMing.

I would really like to do this and fully support this proposal.

[Liriel]

On the public boards, quite honestly, I think TC members should be allowed to speak for their own personal views.  Just because we were elected TC members doesn't mean we don't have our own views and positions for or against a particular proposal.

My own objection isn't to 3e .. or 3.5e or whatever.  I play in two other games which both use 3.5e.  My objection is that I think a DM should be actively involved in the 3e games, at least until the kinks are worked out.  

I know we have PC's that know 3e and/or 3.5e.  But things are very different when it comes to 3e mechanics, especially in combat.  I simply think that if we're going to bring 3e to Thard, we need at least one DM to actively be involved and learn the system/mechanics.

[Feff]

Maybe I'm still the only one here that doesn't really like 3e, even if that is the case, I will speak my mind and ask my questions.

Are the majority of you pushing for Thardferr to become a solely 3e world? Are you willing to keep the same uniqueness in Thardferr that seperated it from all the 2e worlds if you change it to 3e? What kind of players/crowd are we desiring to bring in?

I ask the last question because I have seen many gamers out on Open that are there solely to roll dice and fight. Oftentimes the real quality gamers are those that can function in roleplaying, not rollplaying.

For the first question, are we really considering going to an exclusively 3e world? We need to answer that question because I'm sure there are a few players out there that won't want to convert at all, including me. You are sure to gain some new characters but you are also bound to lose some of your older players that have remained dedicated to this setting.

The second question is in regards to how unique the world is right now. We distinguish ourselves from every other 2e world out there by having something that other worlds don't offer. At the time we are 2nd edition, but yet we are also quite different. If we go either straight 3e or a combination of 2e/3e are we going to continue that same uniqueness as before.