Gods, corrections and reworking of some items.

[kluu]

Specific discussion of the god and changes to them of larger and more complex need should be posted and had on the god's com boards. but this is general overall discusson of the Gods and pantheons and possible changes to be made.

After a litle discoure with others her is a few possible changes to be made to correct some mistakes and over all balance within the pantheons and gods and how they fall into power levels and alignments represented.

Proposed changes

Anthor be traded with Mahacto or Terrerie in power (Greater for Intermediate), some slight reworking of given powers and number of spells may be needed and should be discussed on the ANthor and other god's baords. I would prefer making Mahacto a greater deity over Terrarie. Discussion needed.

Minor change, Alignment only
Tyre becomes NG   +G
Celenia becomes CN -G, +C
Praxin Becomes NE +E, -C
Fyrre becomes CN -E   

Helps to correect mistakes, bring needed alignments to certain power levels within the gods and maintain balance over all between the alignments within the pantheons. None of these wil cause a need of any of these gods to be rewritten in any major way if at all.

[kluu]

Garrrr, I took a second look at my suggestions above and notice that it throws off some of the other balances withint he differnt areas between alignment and power level.  More thought will hav to be put into it.

Some are good though.

Anthor should be traded from greater  to intermediate with AMahacto or Terrarrir. I stilsuggest Mahacto though originally it was Terrarie. But no other Elemental gods are greater powers and having Terrarrie an intermediate balancing Fyrre while Aeirie and Aqualie are lesser seems better to me. Also I think Mahacto as god of law should be a Greater power. THis fixes some alignment probles of power level in this trade off.

Tyre should be NG.
Celenia should be CN.
Lorails should be N.

Praxin should not be changed at this point. It would throw off the balance. And though I believe Fyrre should be CN, if it is changed it will through off the balance. Perhaps with a lot fo power level shifting and alignment chqnging we can get Fyrre to CN but it would mean making him a lesser power and raising one of the others to Intermediate and changing their alignment probably shifting more god's alignments jsut to balance things. I'd rather not do all this just to take one god one shift in the alignment wheel.  

to make Fyrre CN I think we would have to trade him with Ajoetis in power level THus replacing the CE Intermediate power. Then make him CN and to balance make Maldread CE. and then we get back to changing Praxon to NE as suggested. If you feel these changes still fit the gods mentoined then we can do it and I think it will finaly balance things. THere will be some work on Anthor, and Mahacto and Fyrre and Asjoetis needed to lower and increase their SP powers and possibley number of spells.

I'm ame if yo all want to do it.

After these changes are made. I believe they are balanced out. But I've been wrong before.

So to recap:

Anthor and Mahacto (or Terrarrie) trade power levels.
Fyrre and Ajoetis trade power levels.
Adjust SP powers and spell lists (possible) to correct for change.
(comment if Fyrre is shifted to lesser, then I think Terrarrie should be the one to stay Intermediate. He will be the only elemental god that is nto lesser at that point. Making him greater I believe makes him too distant in power form the others. I regret havinf Fyrre be reduced. Perhaps someone else can see another way to balance this allout.)

Fyrre becomes CN.
Maldread becomes  CE.
Praxon becomes NE.

Tyre becomes NG.
Celenia becomes CN.
Loralis becomes N.

[kluu]

BTW. the following alone I believe puts things in balance.

Anthor should be traded from greater to intermediate with AMahacto or Terrarrir. I stilsuggest Mahacto though originally it was Terrarie. But no other Elemental gods are greater powers and having Terrarrie an intermediate balancing Fyrre while Aeirie and Aqualie are lesser seems better to me. Also I think Mahacto as god of law should be a Greater power. THis fixes some alignment probles of power level in this trade off.

Tyre should be NG.
Celenia should be CN.
Lorails should be N.

Making Fyrre CN is not needed for balance it only is done if we think we need Fyrre to be CN.

[Dalan]

Celenia the goddess of healing becoming C/N ?!?!?  I'd rather things make sense than extremely balanced.  Shouldn't Celenia be Good?

[Nyrhtlyk the Dark]

Don't look at me, Celenia is fundamentally CG in my opinion.  Her followers reflect a bit more variety. However, it's a philosophical debate and when you get into those, it's invariable that nobody comes away 100% content with the results.

[Nyrhtlyk the Dark]

Celenia was also originally designed to be a Chaotic Deity, which is where a lot of her powers and abilities where setup.  

It was meant to be
Aranthis (CG, Greater Power) ;  Celenia (CG, Intermediate Power) ; and Aerie (CG, Lesser Power)

[Liriel]

So why was it changed?

[Nyrhtlyk the Dark]

That's unclear, looking back over the godscom and all archived discussions on Celenia, it was never discussed moving her from the Chaotic Pantheon to the Neutral Pantheon.  However, it happened, I just can't put my finger on why.

[kluu]

I think it was based on her write up and background story hat was created. Another person did a write up on her and made her out to be more nuetral and accepting of every one's health, etc...

Also, I think that there was a mistake in power levels where neutral pantheon needed an intermidiate power and so she was traded with Praxin, who seemed to fit the chaotic nature better afte the god was redefined to deal with transformation and mutation.  With the rewrite it made sense to change some of the alignments as their orignal ones no longer went along with the way the god was being percieved or written up.

But I can deal with Celenia being N,  and CN because she is will cross lines working for both evil and good sometimes to the benefit of either depending on who needs the most help. Health is not a good thing, it a natural and neutral thing, even evil beings want to be healthy, even evil alignments can be in love or wnat peace. Celenia should not be against these evil beings jsut because she is good and they are evil.  I think CN works for Celenia.

[Nyrhtlyk the Dark]

A Neutral viewpoint on health would be more moderated.  It's more proactive to say, heal everything and everyone, since that violates the natural order of things.  People/Animals, etc. are meant to get sick, hurt, and die.   However, Celenia believes in healing, to the point where she'll violate the natural order and heal anything simply because of her compassion.

That's Good to me, not Neutral.   Chaotic though is something I agree on, since she's willing to bypass any laws, any lines, any boundaries to follow her goals.   However, her goals are not neutral in my opinion. :)

Again, philosophical debate. ;) No clear winners, just viewpoints to express.

[kluu]

Possible fix

Chaotic         Neutral         Lawful
MH Ballog (CE) B  MH Ostran (N) O  MH Kreaon (LG) K
G Sembral (CN) B  G Tyre (NG) O     G Syth (LE) K
G Aranthis (CG) B  G Diadria (NE) O  G Mahacto (LN) K

I Ajoetis (CE) B  I Kaldinsky (N) O  I Anthor (LG) K
I Loralis (CN) O  I Celenia (NG) O   I Garalax (LE) K
I Elanar (CG) B    I Corathal (NE) B  I Terrarie (LN) K    

L Maldread (CE) B  L Aqualie (N) O  L Hesneen (LG) K
L Fyrre (CN) O     L Thr (NG) O      L Jandor (LE) B   
L Aerie (CG) B     L Praxin (NE) B  L Telk (LN) K   

Evil         Neutral          Good
MH Ballog (CE) B  MH Ostran (N) O  MH Kreaon (LG) K
G Syth (LE) K     G Sembral (CN) B  G Tyre (NG) O
G Diadria (NE) O  G Mahacto (LN) K   G Aranthis (CG) B

I Ajoetis (CE) B   I Terrarie (LN) K  I Elanar (CG) B
I Garalax (LE) K   I Kaldinsky (N) O  I Celenia (NG) O
I Corathal (NE) B  I Loralis (CN) O  I Anthor (LG) K

L Maldread (CE) B  L Fyrre (CN) O   L Aerie (CG) B   
L Jandor (LE) B     L Telk (LN) K     L Thr (NG) O   
L Praxin (NE) B     L Aqualie (N) O  L Hesneen (LG) K

[Lalina]

I am just throwing out ideas, since this is up for change.

****

Fix is, from the current writeup:

Anthor drops to intermediate.
Mahacto rises to greater.
Tyre switches from TN to NG.
Kaldinsky switches from NG to TN.
Maldred switches from NE to CE.
Fyrre switches from CE to CN.
Praxin from CN to NE.

****

Some people have suggested Loralis ought to be TN.  If we wanted to mess with it further, could be:

I Loralis (TN) -- Loralis goes from CN to TN.
I Elanar (CN) -- Elenar goes from CG to CN.
I Celenia (CG) -- Celenia goes from NG to CG.
I Kaldinsky (NG) -- remains at NG (as he is written now).

Just a thought.  I think that as Loralis is the mistress of dreams and of the space between life and death, light and darkness, etc -- she strikes me as a bit chaotic (dreams are the most chaotic thing, really).  But others have argued she should be TN.  This would also make a soul sister arrangement of Tyre-Loralis-Diadria work (life-dreams/inbetween life and death-death) work as it would be NG, TN, NE.  Though, I have no problem with the current setup of Celenia-Loralis-Diadria of NG, CN, NE -- makes it just a little chaotic, as life and the afterlife seems to be at times.

****

Another idea, while we are discussing reworking these things.  It's been suggested that Terrarie move up to Greater status.  However, that puts the element of earth way out of balance with the other elements -- Fyrre, Aqualie and Aerie are all Lesser powers -- that I agree he should be not become a Greater power.

Indeed, I was thinking a possible switch of Terrarie with Telk should be considered.  That would provide balance to the elements -- all elemental dieties would be of the same power level -- Lesser.  Another way to balance it would be to switch Elenar and Aerie -- making Aerie an intermediate goddess and Loralis a lesser one.  That would make air and earth intermediate dieties while fire and water would be lesser.

[Gibreel]

Or we could leave everything, and not waste time going over the same material again that does not effect gameplay in any actually way--and spend our time doing something that would gather more players or expand the world.

[DarkRayden]

Personally, I'd see Kaldinsky as TN. How could we possibly classify the Knowledge and Learning into alignments? It is as open for the evil as for the good. the law and chaos are treated the same when it comes to learning and education. Why would it be 'good' after all?

[kluu]

I agree a great deal with what Gib ahs said.

I also like to discuss things just for discussion's sake and there is soem mistakes in teh balancing I had never noticed and so would liek to correct.

I think if we vote to allow the new changes and balancing I suggested it would fix things. only a little mroe need be discussed in delaing sith the power level changes and we would be finished. And hopefully everyone satisfied with the changes and comprimises made.

But becaue I am discussing this doens't mean I cna't also discuss or help with outher things. So go ahead and start a new discussion thread or proposal.