Paladin/Ranger specialtys

[Saphire]

I know there is so many things being worked on, and I hate to bring up yet another, but one thing I would like to see improved is in the paladin/ranger classes.  
  One thing that might be handy is an index, detailing all available paladin/ranger/villians, making easier to choose one.

 One thing is that paladins/rangers already have so many abilitys, but like the villians, they could have more tailor made abilitys, adding new and ridding old ones that don't fit the class. This could really be interesting with gods such as Aerie and Aqualie.

  Depending on the gods, perhaps certain paladin classes could be open to other races. As well as certain spells available at a lower level(4 or 6), instead of the standard 8th or 9th.

  Just a few thoughts, I'll post more detailed ideas, once I have more time.  

[Lalina]

Just a note:

http://gods.kyranath.com/Mysteries_of_the_gods.html#class

will give you a list of what gods can have what class.

But, I agree with Saph's general point.  I think paladins and rangers generally have little to no write-up, despite the fact they are supposed to follow thardferr dieties.  Furthermore, they clearly take a different tack then the general clergy of the diety, so I think they could use some work.

[Endel]

I don't think rangers have to follow a certain god perse to gain spells.

[Lalina]

According to the gods-writeup, to gain spells, they need to follow a god.  Druids also need to.

[Trickster]

I once brought this up a while back with a DM who's name I don't remember, just around the time Villains became playable. I was more or less complaining how the Villains had special abilities from thier specific gods, and different alignment restrictions.

The DM's response (paraphrased): Paladin's get +2 to all saving throws, Villains don't.

Anyways, I wouldn't mind seeing paladin's get more of a write-up. Describing what thier standard way of life is; much like the Villains. The way I see it right now is that each paladin of a different god would put certain virtues ahead of others.

Kreaon: Good
Hesneen: Duty
Anthor: Honor
Mahacto: Law

[kluu]

I have no problem with this, though I would not want it to get too out of hand. Infact I believe the personalized paladin to the specific god fits the Thardferr stting well. Feel free to write up a suggested ability for each paladin and what ability in the paladin standard write up may not be allowed to them.

After you are done the TC can decide if they want them implimented or not.

Anyone else have suggestoins as to how to personalize them?

I don't think they should gain spells earlier, nor should any of the experience or game mechnics be changed in any significant way. I also don't think they should have any kind of alignment change. The LG alignment fits the paladin of each of these gods fine.

Suggestions?

[Lalina]

Hm, this is hard.

Kreaon -- just so much here.  And yet, as paladins of "good", perhaps they should just be the standard.  However, there are various Orders listed on the Kreaon page -- perhaps those Orders should have their own benefits/disabilities for paladins.  I can see that paladins devoted to the destruction of undead getting better turning powers, Celestial Guard might have a slight combat bonus, Noble Heart might would have benefits of nobility, etc.

Mahacto -- this clergy should have access to the OoTS law proficiencies (not just the paladins, think all of them).  Perhaps the paladins gain some abiilites...

Hm, what about allowing a paladin to select one ability from the SP granted powers list?  Perhaps they can either choose a SP power OR gain the +2 to all saving throws.


On another note, Aerie and Celenia seem more prone to granting non-LG paladins than having rangers, and perhaps those rangers should be changed a bit to reflect that.  But maybe their unique spell list already does that, I dunno.

[DarkRayden]

While we were talking Anti-Paladins (Villains)...

Can all Villains control undead?

also, a bit offtopic issue -  on the http://gods.kyranath.com/Sembral-Lord_of_Battle.html#SP
There is a big chunk of a dump data on the Church Errata/Allies section.

Finally -
A Villain who has Strength and Charisma scores of 16 or more gains a 10% bonus to the experience points he earns ~~ from the villain writeup.

Q: can other classes use the benefit of the same guide line for EXP awarding if their prime req equal or higher than 16??

[Lalina]

prime req experience bonus has always been used in Thardferr to my knowledge.

Straight from the villian write-up:

A Villain gains the power to dominate undead and fiends when he reaches 3rd level. He affects these monsters the same as does a cleric two levels lower -- for example, at 3rd level he has the turning power of a 1st-level cleric. This ability acts in an identical way to a Priests turning ability, only to dominate rather than turn.

[DarkRayden]

So, if I got this straight, in addition to the main Villain description they ALSO get the ability their deity provudes them? and if I remember correctly they can also turn paladins... or was it only evil priests?
 In that case these ARE quiet monstrous beings, and seemingly have a lot more powers than the regular paladins. Maybe there is indeed some need to balance it up - give paladins some extra abilities , for the +2 to STs is not really enough...

As for the prime req exp bonus...
I also heard this rule was voted for and turned down... just wanted to know the final say on this one, preferrably from a DM.

[Saphire]

I like Lalina's ideas.

 I always thought of Kreaon as not just good, but truth. For the most part, the standard paladin fits the role of Solarians. If anything, depending on which affliate they are with, maybe they can have a substitute or bonus ability such as : True seeing , Invisibility to Undead, Atonement  as an example.
  I don't know if the paladins of Machto and Hesneen, maybe even Anthor, really need the ability to turn undead. Perhaps a better fitting ability can be substituted instead.

[kluu]

Villains cannot turn priests or other paladins. THese are the enemies that they must face. Being able to jsut turn them would be far too powerful.

I do not think Aerie or Celenia should ahve paladins. Neither of these should have such obviously warrior based orders of followers.

THe paladins should not gain any SP abilities. This lessens the SP. THey need to have their own individual tweaks. these tweaks should be on par with what you are getting rid of outof the standard write up.

As to the Standard Paladin, I think that this is the Anthorian Paladin. Anthor would be the one using the unmodified one, Hesneen could also, perhaps with only a slilght tweak, if any.

Any new tweaks if possible should be gained or taken out of the paladin handbook. THis makes them already proven and so more balanced.

Kreaon, I agree may have more than one tweaked type.

Mahacto would obviously have some kind of use of sword ability, perhaps more akin to having a holy sword based on level but not needing the actual enchanted weapon but only a Blademaster like ritually made and blessed sword. HAving holy seord like ability with their special sword is powerful enough that they would lose more than one ability. Perhaps disease heal and laying on of hands owuld be lost.

[DarkRayden]

((I meant the evil priests could turn paladins as lower in their level...))

Celenia indeed has her rangers already, or rather Hospitalar Knights

And Kreaon -  thought he had the Shaddow Warrior as sort of a paladin class for him

[Scionist]

Shadow Warriors are not Paladins they are a hybrid class that takes only a few parts from the Paladin class. (XP and spell progression)  They also take ranger abilities (move silently and hide in shadows).  I don't think they qualify as a paladin class.  But, as always, I could be talking out the wrong end....again.

[Trickster]

Let's not complicate things by giving every faction aligned with Kreaon thier own ability; not every paladin following him is going to be aligned with a faction.

Paladin's of Anthor are the closest to True Paladins.

If we are going to be giving paladins of the same god different powers, than paladins of Mahacto could follow either the path of the sword or the path of the word. Possible abilities could include specialization in a bladed weapon, Protection from Chaos 10ft, Truesight, or the empowerment of thier weapon. Although the last one seems a bit much like the Blademaster's abilities.

Gonna go out on a limb here and suggest the idea that Blademasters be made the paladins of Mahacto.  :?

Paladins of Hesneen; what ability would really suit them?